Ask the SMXpert — Page speed, site migrations and crawling

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Our SMXperts share their tactical insights on optimizing crawl budgets, fine-tuning page speed and how to execute on large-scale error-free site migrations.

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How to choose the best content format for link building

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Thinking about creating an infographic or GIF as a way to attract links? Here’s a list of pros and cons of different visual elements and their effectiveness at attracting links.

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Marketing Day: Pinterest opens API, Shopify unveils new tools, SMXperts & more

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Here’s our recap of what happened in online marketing today, as reported on Marketing Land and other places across the web.

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YouTube gives more creators option to monetize channels

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Channel Memberships, a program that lets creators offer a $4.99 monthly subscription fee, is now available to channels with 50,000 subscribers.

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Sharpen your digital marketing skills with an SMX East workshop

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Passion drives you to become a more accomplished marketer, grow your career and go the extra mile. You’re the reason we created the SMX® East workshop series. Join us for a training experience loaded with actionable SEO, SEM and social media advertising tactics. We’re hosting four in-depth…

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The EU’s Competition Commissioner is investigating Amazon

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The preliminary investigation questions whether access to third-party seller data is potentially anticompetitive.

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Letting Go of Perfection in Order to Achieve Your Goals

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Letting Go of Perfection in Order to Achieve Your Goals written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

Marketing Podcast with Petra Kolber
Podcast Transcript

Petra KolberThis week on the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I speak with Petra Kolber. She is an expert in positive psychology and fitness, and she uses this unique background to help companies and individuals find joy, passion, and productivity.

With 25 years of experience in the fitness industry, Kolber has worked with the likes of Nancy Kerrigan, Dana Torres, and George Foreman. She has choreographed and starred in over 100 fitness videos, and has served as a consultant to companies like Reebok, Adidas, Gatorade, and Health Magazine. She is also a highly sought-after speaker, whose practical techniques leave audiences with the tools they need to implement positive changes in their lives.

Kolber is the author of The Perfection Detox: Tame Your Inner Critic, Live Bravely, and Unleash Your JoyKolber speaks with me about how being a perfectionist can be toxic, and shares insight into how to banish perfectionist tendencies in order to live a happier, healthier life.

Questions I ask Petra Kolber:

  • What does perfection look like?
  • What are “perfection toxins” costing us?
  • Where do you start with the perfection detox?

What you’ll learn if you give a listen:

  • Why comparing your work to others’ highlight reel can paralyze you
  • How our negative biases are causing not just emotional, but also physical, harm
  • Why perfect is only a word until you attach an emotion to it

Key takeaways from the episode and more about Petra Kolber:

Like this show? Click on over and give us a review on iTunes, please!

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13 Marketing Tips SEOs Can Learn From PPC Managers

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As an SEO expert, you know what it takes to get your content ranked high in search engine results.

Depending on how good you are at SEO, sometimes the only results displayed higher than yours are those from PPC campaigns.

SEO and PPC are considered to be two very different marketing approaches. But these strategies are more similar than you think.

The biggest difference between SEO and PPC is you’re paying for your PPC campaigns, as the name implies. Driving organic traffic to your website with SEO is free.

While keywords are obviously important to PPC managers, they don’t need to focus on search engine optimization as much because they’re bidding on those keywords.

If they’re willing to pay enough, their search engine ads can generate hits and clicks, even if their headlines aren’t extremely SEO friendly.

Using SEO to drive website traffic is much more competitive. To gain an advantage over your competitors, you can use PPC principles to improve your SEO strategy.

After all, your search ranking is useless if it doesn’t generate clicks.

These are the top 13 marketing tips SEOs can learn from PPC managers. By combining principles from these two strategies, you’ll be able to drive more traffic to your website.

1. Write headlines that generate clicks

As I said before, the basic principle behind SEO is getting a high search ranking. This is obviously very important for your traffic.

But is that high ranking translating to clicks and traffic? It should.

The first page of search engine results generates 75% of all clicks.

If you’re getting ranked high but not seeing a spike in traffic, there is likely a problem with your headlines. You need to learn how to increase clicks by mastering your headlines.

There are common elements in titles that encourage clicks.


Even if your headline has SEO friendly keywords, it doesn’t mean people will click on it.

PPC managers are masters at writing great ad copy. This helps improve their click-through rates and increases their quality scores.

But with SEO, you don’t need to pay for ads to generate clicks.

You just need to make slight adjustments to your SEO headlines that will make them more enticing.

For example, add a number to your headline. You may not think this is good for SEO because people probably aren’t searching for numbers. But this strategy generates clicks.

Headlines containing numbers are 36% more likely to get clicked. Using odd numbers improves CTR by 20% compared to even numbers.

2. Come up with new keywords

Don’t be broad with your keyword research.

Get specific. Use long-tail keywords to generate more relevant search results.

Using long-tail keywords will also make the search results less competitive. For example, let’s say your company sells backpacks.

If that’s the only keyword you’re using, it’ll be tough to get ranked high and generate clicks.

But if you’re using long-tail keywords, e.g., “red waterproof hiking backpack,” you’re appealing to a very specific audience.

Yes, the search volume for those words will definitely be lower. However, you won’t be competing with as many websites.

Now you’ll get ranked higher and increase your chances of getting more clicks.

It’s also important to use new keywords based on seasons, promotions, or the audiences you’re trying to target with specific campaigns. Don’t use the same keywords over and over again expecting to get great results, especially if the keywords are highly competitive.

3. Monitor keywords from your competitors

Your keyword research shouldn’t be conducted in a vacuum. You need to know what your competition is doing.

PPC managers use this strategy to help them see which keywords are the most competitive. It allows them to adjust their bids accordingly.

But it’s important for you to implement this strategy when you’re focusing on search engine optimization as well.

Try using tools such as SpyFu to help you with your keyword monitoring:


With SpyFu, you can search for specific competitors, and the platform will analyze their websites’ content.

You’ll be able to identify exact keywords they’re using.

Based on this information, you can make the necessary adjustments. If one of your competitors is always getting ranked higher than you, maybe it’s time for you to start using some of their keywords.

You can make those keywords even better by turning them into long-tail keywords, which I’ve already talked about.

4. Track your leads with UTM parameters

Where are your leads coming from?

I’m hoping you’re not relying solely on organic search traffic to get more visitors to your website. You should be running other campaigns as well.

If you see a spike in website traffic, you can’t assume it’s coming from your improved SEO efforts. But how can you know for sure?

By creating custom links with UTM parameters, you’ll be able to distinguish your search engine traffic from the traffic generated by other campaigns.

For example, you can set up a unique link for each one of your email marketing newsletters. Have a different link for all your social media posts.

If you’re running ads on other websites or getting affiliate links, those should each have a custom URL as well.

Now you’ll be able to identify the sources of your traffic. You’ll see which headlines, ads, platforms, and promotions are yielding the highest results.

PPC managers do this to see if it’s worth it to continue paying for specific ads on websites. But you can use it to figure out if your SEO strategy and keywords are working.

5. Optimize keywords for mobile searches

When it comes to your keyword research, you need to keep different devices in mind.

That’s because more than half of all website traffic comes from smartphones and tablets.


In this day and age, you need to keep an eye on the most important mobile trends of the year.

Mobile devices changed the way people search.

What do I mean by this?

The same person using their smartphone to search for something will enter different terms than they would if they searched using their desktop or laptop computers.

In fact, 79% of all Google keywords rank differently in mobile searches. And 47% of the top 20 positions are ranked differently on mobile devices compared to desktops.

You need to identify these differences and adjust your keywords accordingly to accommodate the needs of mobile users.

6. Retarget your prospects

Let’s say someone visits your website because of your SEO efforts.

That’s great. But now what?

You need to understand how people search, navigate, and convert. Just because someone lands on your homepage through organic search traffic doesn’t mean they’ll convert.

Maybe they’re just browsing or scanning a blog post. After that, they’ll leave your website.

That’s why you need to learn how to increase conversions with retargeting strategies.

Retargeting campaigns can get these visitors back to your website in the future.


You can take the lead from PPC managers and run ads on other websites.

When the user lands on your site in the first place, you can use cookies to track their browsing behavior. Now they’ll see your ad when they visit another website.

Change up your ads so they don’t keep seeing the same ones over and over again.

7. Run A/B tests on your landing pages

You need to make sure your clicks are driving conversions.

If you can create landing pages that have high conversion results, you’ll be able to make more money whenever you increase your site traffic with SEO.

Right now, you might be satisfied with your conversion rates. But how can you be sure the pages are optimized for the highest conversions?

You can’t know for sure unless you test and measure the results.

Use A/B testing to change different elements on your landing pages to see whether you can improve those conversion rates.

Test things such as CTA placement, images, CTA wording, sizes, value proposition, and color schemes. You can basically test every element on each landing page to come up with the best design to drive conversions.

SEO focuses on site ranking and traffic. PPC managers focus on clicks. But both SEOs and PPC managers ultimately need to prioritize conversions.

8. Target people based on their locations

PPC marketers use geotargeting campaigns to limit their search results to prospective customers within a specific area.

Google AdWords lets you set this up:


When it comes to your SEO strategy, you can still target people based on their locations, even if you don’t want to pay for ads.

Just create specific landing pages for different areas.

For example, let’s say your business has locations all over the country. Each location should have its own local website.

This will increase the website traffic for people within those areas whenever they search for something relevant to what you’re offering.

You can even create custom landing pages based on these locations. For example, the needs of consumers in Boston will differ from those of consumers in Dallas when it comes to buying clothing in December.

9. Showcase your competitive advantage

In a list of search results, your website will appear next to the websites of your competitors. Even if you’re paying for ads, other sites will pay for ads that will show up on the page too.

How can you stand apart from your competition?

Write SEO-friendly headlines and meta descriptions that show your value proposition. Just look at these ads that come up when you use Google to search for plumbers in Seattle:

seattle plumbers

What’s going to make users pick one business over the others?

The top advertisement offers free estimates, which is very enticing, especially for plumbing services.

Another company has financing options available to help its customers pay off expensive services.

Take a look at the ad in the middle. To stand out from the crowd, they tell you that all their employees are background checked and drug tested.

Honestly, I thought this was odd to mention, but it definitely helps them stand out from the other ads on this page.

10. Consider the timing of your ads

If you’re going to take your SEO campaigns to the next level and start running PPC ads, you need to know when to run them.

For example, B2B brands would want to run their ads during normal business hours. That’s when their target audiences will be searching for their products and services.

You don’t expect a prospective B2B client to be searching for a service at 2 AM on a Saturday night.

However, if you’re a global B2C ecommerce shop, you’ll probably want to run your ads at all times.

11. Include a CTA

When it comes to your SEO efforts, obviously you want to be descriptive in your headlines and meta descriptions to target specific audiences.

But you need to come up with a way to be informative while still encouraging an action.

Ultimately, you want people to click on your website. PPC marketers understand this, so they craft ads with keywords that include CTAs.

Just look at the differences in conversion rates based on CTAs:


As you can see, including the word buy in your headline won’t lead to conversions.

Even if you think certain words are SEO-friendly, you need to recognize the impact those keywords will have on your clicks.

12. Pre-qualify your leads

It seems PPC campaigns are usually better than SEO efforts at pre-qualifying leads.

That’s because each click from a PPC campaign is costly. If that click doesn’t generate money, it’s a waste of valuable marketing dollars.

Even if your SEO efforts lead to a high search ranking, it’s not helpful if your leads aren’t qualified. While these clicks aren’t necessarily costing you money as they would if they were PPC ads, you should still approach this the same way as you would a PPC campaign.

For example, headlines and keywords run by B2B brands will differ from those run by B2C brands.

Let’s take a look at the search results for “escape rooms for big groups:”

escape rooms

Right away, there are certain keywords in these headlines and meta descriptions that pre-qualify leads.

One of the results advertises corporate events. If you’re planning a birthday party or a similar event, you probably won’t be clicking that link. But if you’re a manager looking to schedule a team building event, that option would definitely appeal to you.

Another way to pre-qualify leads is to use pricing. If people aren’t willing to spend $30 per person at a minimum, they won’t click that link in the middle of the page.

What qualifies as a large group? Well, the business at the bottom of the page says its escape rooms are for groups larger than 12 people.

If you were planning an event for eight people, you’d look elsewhere.

Now that the leads have been pre-qualified, they’ll be more likely to convert when they visit the websites.

13. Create custom landing pages

This tip is related to the topic of traffic sources.

For example, let’s say a PPC advertisement is placed on the sidebar of another website. This ad is promoting a specific product.

The landing page for this ad should be specific to the product or service being promoted. You wouldn’t want to take that user to your homepage because it would lower your conversion rates.

Use this strategy for your SEO efforts as well.

You’ll want to set up different landing pages based on what your prospective customers are shopping for, such as men’s or women’s clothing for your ecommerce shop.


In theory, high search rankings should result in more website traffic.

But if you’re not getting the traffic you’re expecting based on your ranking, it’s time for you to re-analyze your SEO efforts.

While they may be optimized for search engines, that’s useless if Internet users aren’t navigating to your website. It’s in your best interest to take advice from marketers who specialize in generating clicks.

You can learn a lot from PPC campaigns.

Even if you don’t want to pay for ads, you can apply the same principles to your SEO efforts to increase your website traffic.

How do you apply PPC concepts to your SEO strategy?

Transcript of Letting Go of Perfection in Order to Achieve Your Goals

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Transcript of Letting Go of Perfection in Order to Achieve Your Goals written by John Jantsch read more at Duct Tape Marketing

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John Jantsch: Would you consider yourself a protectionist? I certainly would not consider myself a traditional protectionist, but I wonder if there’s times when viewing my view of the world through other people’s lens has cost me, has held me back, has stopped me from doing what I was meant to do

In this episode of The Duct Tape Marketing podcast we visit with Petra Kolber, she’s the author of The Perfection Detox: Tame Your Inner Critic, Live Bravely, and Unleash Your Joy. I think you better check it out.

Stuff like payroll and benefits are hard. That’s why I switched to Gusto and to help support the show Gusto is offering out listeners and exclusive limited time deal. You sign up for their payroll service today, you’ll get three months free once you run your first payroll. Just go to

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is John Jantsch and my guest today is Petra Kolber. She’s international renown fitness expert and wellness leader. Also, the author of a book we’re gonna talk about today called The Perfection Detox: Tame Your Inner Critic, Live Bravely, and Unleash Your Joy. So Petra, thanks for joining us.

Petra Kolber: Oh my pleasure. Thanks for having me John.

John Jantsch: And I also forgot to mention that you are, you’re gonna shoot me, Scottish.

Petra Kolber: Oh, my god. You are so off. I am British. My dad was Scottish though. I have to be honest, my dad was a Scott.

John Jantsch: There’s a little Scot in your accent still, what’s left of it.

Petra Kolber: If you say so. Okay, we’ll just leave it at that, because my mother’s turning in her grave right now going, Scottish?

John Jantsch: I could have called you Australian.

Petra Kolber: That too. I’ll answer to anything John. If I’m just talking to you, whatever works. I’m fine with that.

John Jantsch: All right, so let me ask you this first. Is this book autobiographical?

Petra Kolber: Well they say you teach what you need to learn, so yes. For me it was autobiographical in a sense, but again for me the pain point of the book, as you know with sales and marketing speak to the pain point. That was definitely my own personal pain point for many years and I thought, if I can help people fast track the seven year process or so that it took me, John, to figure out that you don’t have to be perfect to do great things in this world, then I though it’d be a book worth writing.

John Jantsch: So detoxing is really hot right now. I mean there’s probably half a dozen books in every book store about it, and diets and what not. What does that speak to you think?

Petra Kolber: Well I did the name Detox to be honest, like we had talked about before, my background was fitness for 30 years, so detoxing, nutrition is definitely a piece of that and if you look at the books cover, The Perfection, Perfection is very lightly written, so I do believe many people who pick this up thinking it’s a juicing book, but again, so hey why not build on a cultural trend. That’s not why I called it that. Like with detox from anything is basically cleaning out the crud, and that’s what this book is about. It’s not cleaning out the crud from your body or your nutrition, but really your mental aspect and whether you’re gonna go for a job of your dreams, you’re gonna start that business you’ve been thinking about. It really is about, not what you’re doing, but do you feel worthy enough to even begin the dream and how do you feel about yourself along the process?

John Jantsch: Okay, so let’s start here. What does perfection look like?

Petra Kolber: Ha, great question.

John Jantsch: I’m probably saying that because I have no idea. It does not enter into my life in any sense.

Petra Kolber:  You are so lucky John, let me tell you. So I do believe perfection means different things to everybody and I do believe a lot of people have asked me. Why did, this book as you know is definitely got the woman perspective, yet I speak to men and woman across the board, and many men come up to me and go, “Oh my god, you were speaking to me.” Perfection means different things to everybody and what I ask people to consider is, when you think of the word perfect in the three main areas of your life, self care, the relationships of your own personal family relationships, and your work. When you think of the word perfect, does that add joy to your life or does it suck the joy out of you? Because perfect and perfection is only a word until you attach a meaning and an emotion to it. So this book, this idea of perfect, you know detoxing from perfection, some of your listeners might go, “Well, hey perfect works really well for me in my business.”

I strive, and this is not about not working hard. This is not about wanting to be the best that you can be. It’s not about wanting to be the leader in your field and what it is about is how are you feeling about yourself when you’re striving for these high goals? Do you ever reach them, or they are so high where perfections become the basement level. Maybe we can look at different metrics and a different definition of success.

John Jantsch: So I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and one of the things that I see is almost rampant in that community is that they didn’t define what perfection was. They’re striving for somebody else’s view of perfection because they see somebody else being more successful in their view, or whatever, having more customers, a bigger launch, a bigger house, you know, whatever it is, and how much do you think that, that plays into it? Is that we don’t step back and even define perfection. We just try to hit somebody else’s target?

Petra Kolber: Oh, that’s so interesting John. Nobody’s ever really put it to me that way. Yeah, I agree and I think whether it’s comparison … I think we are comparing being by definition. We need to look at other people for inspiration and I think Jon Acuff was the one that said, “Don’t compare your beginning to everybody else’s middle.” And what happens, especially in this world of social media and the online culture where everything is coming across our feed so fast and if you’re like me, for many years I never had this idea that I had anything unique to say, so who was I to be doing a book, a bran, an online course and so whether you see it as perfection, like you had said, or you see it as a lack of confidence or the gap between where you are right now and where you want to be, I think it’s all about the same thing John. We start looking at ourselves, unwittingly comparing ourselves to others, and then out negativity biased, which is a part of our evolution, is automatically gonna hit on the things that we think we are not enough of.

Or in some cases, we think we’re too much of this and what happens is then, we then stop beating ourselves up and judging ourselves, and I should know better, I shouldn’t be comparing my brand, or my launch to someone else’s launch. The challenge is the part of our brain that’s the strongest, it’s not part of your character flaw, it’s a part of our genetic makeup and unless it goes managed and unless we notice these thoughts John, like “Oh, my god, their launch was so perfect. Or, “They wrote the perfect book, ” or, “Their online program is so perfect,” and unwillingly we’re comparing our back story and our struggles to what we see as their overnight success, which in reality is 10,000 hours of hustle and hard work, and failure after failure and iteration 2.0. This is when we get stopped in our tracks and so it’s where we stop doing, we start watching and then we start becoming paralyzed because we start judging what we think we’re doing to everyone else’s highlight reel.

John Jantsch: So physical toxins, are quite often aligned with something you’re familiar with, as a cancer survivor. How is perfection toxins, what’s that costing us?

Petra Kolber: You got some great questions John. You know what, the interesting thing about this, people often say, “Ah, it’s just a thought. I’m just having these thoughts. I’m beating myself up.” And now science is showing that these thoughts have a physical reaction, a chemical reaction to your body. So what we’re seeing now in this world of elevated stress, elevated anxiety, in the entrepreneurial world and in the life’s of our children, elevated depression, although with our kids, they’re saying anxiety is going up, as depression is coming down a little bit. Every time we have these thoughts, our brain, every time we have a thought of self judgment and doubt, or worry it’s not a status quo, it’s gonna trigger irresponsible in your body. It’s either gonna be fight or flight, or tandem befriend and this cortisol, the adrenalin, and placed on top of the adrenaline and cortisol that gets triggered every time we have an email alert, or a text come in our we have an argument with our partner, or work partner.

This is all having a physical impact on our body and our immune system, our health, our joy, our happiness, and so again, people go, “Oh it’s just a thought.” “Uh, yeah, no.” Because your body can now not … This is science, the science of neuroscience. Your body cannot tell the difference between an actual something we should be afraid of and go on physical defense or a thought where we ramp up and have this same toxic, like you said, toxic emotion built into our body and often to put on top of that John, this work is often happening behind a computer and we’re sitting and you and I just spoke about this before. Sitting is the worse place for our body, our health, our happiness, our focus, our agility, our resilience. So you put all these thoughts on a body that’s now static, it’s just compiled and exasperates to a magnificent and an unfortunate level.

John Jantsch: For the record, I’m at my standing desk right now as we record this interview. I want everybody to know. So let’s pick on social media a little bit now. So let’s pick on social media a little bit, shall we. You know my last interview that I … Who knows when people will actually be listening to these. They probably won’t come out back to back, but Dan Schawbel, Back To Human: How Greatly Leaders Create Connection in an Age of Isolation, and one of the main thrusts of his book is that technology, while it does enable us to do some cool things, it’s probably made us more isolated than ever, and I suspect that in the perfection game, social media is a pretty big culprit isn’t it?

Petra Kolber:  Yeah, absolutely. I love that idea. I think the currency of the future is gonna be connection and I heard Gary V. speak recently at an even and he held up his phone, and he goes, “Technology doesn’t have and opinion,” and I was like, oh that’s good, ’cause I had become silently very judgy about social media and technology. It doesn’t have an opinion, but it’s how we feel about ourselves and how we decide to use it and what our intention is when we’re going onto social media, or any form of technology. So again, it does magnificent things. You and I are having this conversation across the country because of technology. My thought is with social media in particular, there’s many great aspects of it. It allowed me John, over the course of two years recently, to pivot my branding from fitness to happiness and now to this idea of becoming our best selves versus our perfect selves. Social media will allow me to do that without paying a PR company, yet we often use social media to deflect, distract.

We often go on when we’re bored, when we’re a little bit lonely and that is the worst place, the worst time for us to jump on, because then that negative bias, our inner critic is quick to ramp up and then start again, going into that comparison mode, and even though we know that what someone is posting on social media there, there are a million dollar launch, or that perfect this, or we know that’s probably not the exact truth. Maybe it’s a little bit highlighted a little bit, while our brain knows that and for females especially, we see the pictures going across out feed, with that million Instagram followers. Our heart has a really hard time discerning what’s real to what we’re seeing across our feed. So I just say, there’s nothing wrong in social media, but make sure you’re going on with full attention and with what intention. There’s so much noise out there. Do we want to add to the noise or can we elevate the conversation. Add things that make people think, make them feel good, make them want to share what it is that you’re sharing about your thoughts and your view of the world today.

If we’re there to elevate the conversation and make people feel less alone, than it’s a great thing, but then again I keep coming back to this idea of when you step off your time on social media, do you feel more joyful, or has the joy been sucked out of you, and then maybe it’s time to look at who you’re following, your intentions, and just kind of do a quick little detox on your social media too.

John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it be great if in your business all you had to do was the stuff you love, the reason you started the business and not all that administrative stuff, like payroll and benefits, that stuff’s hard, especially when you’re a small business. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to one of those big corporate companies and I always felt like a little tiny fish, but now there is a much better way. I’ve switched over to Gusto and it is making payroll and benefits and HR easy for the modern small business. You no longer have to be a big company to get great technology, great benefits, and great service to take care of your team. To help support the show, Gusto is offering our listeners an exclusive limited time deal. If you sign up today, you’ll get three months free once you run your first payroll. Just go to

So I probably wasn’t gonna bring this up, but you opened the door to it. Do feel that men and women approach this idea of perfection differently?

Petra Kolber: Yes, I do. I mean I think … This is why I wrote the book form a female perspective, ’cause while I’ve had many conversations with men, and I think the suffering is there, but I think it’s a little different. I think, and again, tell me, correct me on this John, I would imagine that sometimes it’s easier for men to compartmentalize their areas of their life. So my job is, I’m crushing it, I’m succeeding, my goal is to be perfect, and their like great, but perhaps your relationships are suffering, or maybe your self care is suffering, whereas I think women have a harder time separating their self care to their relationships, to their work life, to their family, so there’s more of a trickle effect. If I’m not feeling great in this area of my life it’s gonna kind of have a little bit of a trickle effect where I think, and I hope I don’t get a lot of blow black on this.

It might be easier for men to compartmentalize just a little. So while perfection’s working in their work life per se, maybe their self care’s suffering, or their family life is suffering and it doesn’t have the ripple down effect quite as much, and feel free to correct me on that.

John Jantsch:  No, no, I agree 100%. I think society plays a huge role in that too. I remember when my kids were little and I’d take them to … I might have one of them, well I have four, so I might have had all four of them and I’d be carrying one in the grocery store checking out and you know it never failed. Somebody, “Oh you’re such a great dad.” And I wonder what it would take for somebody to actually say, “You’re such a great mom,” if my wife was doing the exact same thing. I think society really … You know, we have much lower expectations I think on men sometimes.

Petra Kolber: It’s a great point and again, not to do any bashing, but I think this expectation that women also place on themselves and the conversation is absolutely changing, a little bit, but even if the conversation is changing externally it’s really hard on the internal conversations that we have with ourselves to ease up the judgment and the self doubt in that area of our life.

John Jantsch: Okay, so we’ve talked a ton about perfection. Let’s talk about detox. Where do you start?

Petra Kolber: Well like with anything I would love to say with this book we start with the joy, but unfortunately you have to clear out the muck. So the first part is just clearing out what’s not working for you and it’s not everything, especially with perfection. Any kind of detox you want to keep what’s working. So you’re gonna keep the flowers but pull out the weeds. So I’m gonna jump back a little bit about perfection John, because there’s many aspects that you want to keep, you’re a hard worker, you strive for excellence, you triple check your work, you’re a great friend, you’re a great coworker. None of that we want to get rid of, but whatever you’re detoxing from, we need to get rid of the stuff that’s not working for you right now. So first bit is clearing out the muck. Then the universe in your brain does not like a vacuum, so you got to put something good in there and this is where my work and my studies with positive psychology enter in. Again our brains default ids the negative, so if we leave a space, then more negative’s gonna come in.

It might have a different voice, a different accent. It might have a Scottish accent, but it’s gonna come in. So we got to put something positive in there and then we want to really be robust for the future. So it’s kind of clearing out the clutter, the muck, which often has happened from our past. Cementing a really positive presence and then from that there’s actually sustainable steps, like creating new habits. As we know, it’s those many daily habits of small, small steps that create magnificent change over time. So how do we do sustainable actions, sustainably new habits around our thinking especially that allows us to create a flourishing future.

John Jantsch: Yeah, that replacement idea is so big. I just read a post, a friend for a long time in this content world and he wrote a post recently. He talked about how he just one day decided to stop drinking alcohol and it just turned into months into year and then he turned around and realized he’d gained 40 pounds and how to like, okay, now I need to replace that with exercise. I think that is so true of our condition isn’t it?

Petra Kolber: Yeah. I mean the thing is, it’s that familiarity. It’s that we’re gonna come back to a habit, whether it’s negative thinking, negative actions that we do, without even realizing that they are negative. They have negative impact. So again, it’s just … And again with this world of becoming, we’re in this attention economy where we’re our lack of full attention. So often times these habits, I think, the negative ones creep in even faster these days, because we’re kind of partially focus, we’re partially engaged without even realizing it. We’re think we’re multitasking, we know there’s no such thing, and I think that has an effect on our inner dialog also, because we’re not fully aware of even the inner habits that we’re maybe replacing, what we thought was a negative just with another negative. So again it’s bringing attention and full intention to all aspects of your life, which is exhausting. So it’s, you do the best you can with what you have.

John Jantsch: Well and you certainly make this point fully in the book fully, but I do think a lot of people when they kind of wake up one day and say, “I have to change something externally.” They really don’t have much success, or at least they don’t stick with it until they change something internally first do they.

Petra Kolber: Yeah, I mean at the end of the day you can want whatever you want. As an entrepreneur, a small business, you can have all the right desires, but unless we’re really looking at the why, what is our driver? Are we being driven by creativity, possibility, seeing failure as just proof that we’re trying, and there’s data in the disasters. If we’re not secure in our foundation John, where we’re building it from a place of, “We are enough,” not meaning there’s not a ton of work that we still need to do to get better at certain aspects of our business, but what often happens is, we can sustain these habits, because the foundation their built on is floored. It’s from an idea of I’m not enough. I’m trying to prove something. I’m trying to prove my worth, versus how can I add worth to the people I’m trying to serve. So again, it’s just with kindness and a curiosity, just continually asking ourselves, why I’m making these choices? Why am I wanting to do this business? What is it in the end that I want to leave? Our legacy. It sounds like a little be grandiose to say, but it really is at the end of the day, don’t we all want to leave the world a little better than when we found it?

That means that we have to continuously and consistently explore our whys and our feelings, not about just the work that we do, but as we grow and evolve and also one thing to make clear is, the closer you get to doing work that really matters, the more you’re gonna struggle with this, because fear is gonna show up, because it just … To me it’s a sign that you’re doing work that you really care about, but when you can flip that wear and stop worrying about, like Seth Godin says, “To be remarkable, means you’re gonna be remarked upon, not just the good but the negative.” When we can flip the fear about what are people gonna say about me if they don’t like my work, onto I’m afraid that I don’t get my work out there and maybe that one person their life could be made easier, by me sharing what it is I believe in, then that’s work worth doing. So, but again, it’s not easy. Our brains gonna notice the negative, the critics, the behind the screen warriors, but when we can believe more in our work, than more about what people think about us, that’s when we can take action behind our dreams.

John Jantsch: So let’s end on a cynical note, shall we?

Petra Kolber: Okay.

John Jantsch: Some might say that perfection has it’s benefits.

Petra Kolber: Yeah, no, again, I mean I never said it didn’t. So that’s fully circle back. Okay. That was the imperfect end. So we’ll circle fully back. Perfect is only a word until you attach an emotion to it. I would change the word perfect, because for me and this is only … This is a personal thing. Again, this is when I’d ask your listeners to go. This might not even be an issue for you, but if the idea of being perfect, or putting out the perfect job, the perfect blog, the perfect podcast. If that stops you from executing, let’s reframe what that word means. Let’s say I’m gonna put out and excellent podcast. I reframe it from being a perfectionist to a passionist. If you can put passion behind your driver instead of perfection, you will probably work harder than you ever have worked before, but this is the area that a lot of people find tricky. If I give up the idea of being perfect, they suddenly see themselves on a couch watching, like binge watching Netflix. I actually think if you give up … I invite you to consider.

If you give up the idea of being perfect, what you think your top level of success is, is actually your mid level, because for many of us, not everyone. If we think we have to be perfect leaders, perfect bosses, we hate to say we don’t know the answer, we hate to ask for help, we have hard time delegating, we don’t give our brains time to relax and find flow and find a place of curiosity. So I often think what you think your success is now, if you eased up the breaks a little bit, not on the work, but changed your driver from fear and has to be flawless and pristine, ’cause also there’s where are you gonna learn. If somethings flawless, how the heck is it gonna get better. So I like it a little bit rough around the edges. That allows us to have iteration 2.0, 3.0, fine tune, fine tune, fine tune, ’cause I’m not sure if it becomes perfect, there’s no more room for learning, growth and expansion.

Don’t know if that answers … and I hopefully that wasn’t quite so cynical.

John Jantsch:  No, I was actually saying that you know, I could see some people saying that. Well that’s just an excuse to do sloppy work, which is what some people would say, but I would counter to that, that the perfections excuse not to ship.

Petra Kolber: Exactly, and I think there’s a different … No perfectionist I know, John. No one I’ve worked with has ever gone from being a perfectionist to being sloppy. That’s just not gonna happen, it’s not in your DNA, but you’re gonna double check your work but you’re not gonna be paralyzed, by going through it with a fine tooth comb, like you said. So you never ship. Would you rather have something slightly imperfect out in the world, or your perfect silence. So, that’s the things that often happens here. Is when we’re trying to be perfect, we often become paralyzed. So let’s just change the conversation around that.

John Jantsch: Yeah, and I think one of the real keys is that you have to have so much self trust in what you’re doing that when I first started writing, I was a terrible writer. I mad grammatical mistakes, really silly ones. When I started speaking I was very bad at that, but I knew that those were gonna be important elements and the only way to get good at ’em was to just do ’em.

Petra Kolber: Yeah, got to get them out. Get the feedback, get the feedforward, and again it doesn’t have to be … That’s the thing, I think … That’s the bit where we get really stuck. I’m gonna wait to do the perfect speech. I’m gonna wait to do the perfected launch. I’m gonna wait to write the perfect book and that for me Johnathan, for many years paralyzed me and now I’m like, if it’s good enough so I don’t embarrass myself, I look professional, I’ve done the work. I’ve done the preparation. I show up and it’s good enough, fantastic, and then also then I allow room for constructive feedback to get better, but then I also know, I’m not gonna be someone that shows up unprepared and if I am, then I deserve to be remarked upon, then shame on me. So I don’t think I’ve ever met a protectionist that goes from that extreme to giving out shoddy work. It’s just not gonna happen.

John Jantsch: Visiting with Petra Kolber author of the Perfection Detox. So Petra, we’re gonna have a link in the show notes to your website, but tell people if they want to learn more about what you’re doing and what you have to offer, and where they can find. You.

Petra Kolber:  Great, my traditional website is just my name and then more about Perfection Detox, just

John Jantsch: And my great gran mother Celia McLaughlin who is indeed a Scot, thanks you for coming on the show.

Petra Kolber: Your so welcome. Thank you.

John Jantsch: Hopefully we’ll see you next time I am up and around your part of the world Petra. Great to visit with you.

Petra Kolber: Thank John.

Twitter finally brings back chronological timelines

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Now that users can opt-out of the algorithm, the question for advertisers will be how it impacts their visibility on the platform.

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